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Are we actively trying to dissuade home users from using Fedora?

asked 2014-12-13 05:45:45 -0500

Greg K Nicholson gravatar image

The Workstation page is very focused on developers and doing work. As a home user, this clearly isn't for me. I was just about to download Fedora Workstation to install on my home computer, but having read just that one page, I'm now going to install Ubuntu Gnome instead.

Are were actively trying to dissuade home users from using Fedora Workstation? If so, kudos to the website team for communicating Fedora Workstation's new focus so clearly! But if we still want average home users to use Fedora, we're getting it very wrong.

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I am using F21 Workstation now. I can assure you, it is everything F20 was and then some. It has the pretty much the same GNOME software as F20 with a few additions of software targeted for software developers which you can delete post-installation. Plus it uses the new GNOME 3.14, which is awesome.

You do make a good point though: Maybe they could have named "Workstation" as "Desktop" instead. This title would probably attract more home users than the current title "Workstation".

cgonz31 gravatar imagecgonz31 ( 2014-12-13 20:59:47 -0500 )edit

the problem is if we try to attract people with no technical knowledge and which want exactly the same software as in there windows box we are gonna to disappoint them.

if you are already a linux user and you know how to install additional (non-FOSS) package (use fedy) , then fedora can be as good (better from my point of view) as ubuntu .

what i don't understand is why there is no reminder (warning is too strong) at fedora install about the fact that fedora try to be 100% FOSS.

baoboa gravatar imagebaoboa ( 2014-12-14 14:22:44 -0500 )edit
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Warning sounds like it is a bad thing and is not quite 100% foss either. There are some very minor exceptions. IMO the website is pretty clear that Fedora is free software focused but it can reinforced in the installer as well. Perhaps you want to file a RFE against anaconda in Red Hat bugzilla and provide a link here.

mether gravatar imagemether ( 2014-12-14 14:29:56 -0500 )edit

on the front page of getfedora.org it's not obvious that the fedora distribution will not provide any proprietary software, sure it's wrote somewhere in the documentation but normal user will install first and look at the doc later.

baoboa gravatar imagebaoboa ( 2014-12-14 14:44:53 -0500 )edit

That's a new website. Feel free to file rfe with your suggestions

mether gravatar imagemether ( 2014-12-14 17:29:28 -0500 )edit

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answered 2014-12-13 11:54:51 -0500

FranciscoD_ gravatar image

updated 2014-12-14 10:13:15 -0500

The Fedora workstation team is not dissuading users from using it and it certainly isn't intended for developers only - the developer tools that are provided are additional and top of the general user applications - they do not replace applications for users. For example, devassistant doesn't replace libreoffice or evolution or empathy or firefox :)

Gnome3 is great for new users - it has all the applications they would need, it has gnome-software which is intended for new users.

Quoting from the wiki page itself:

While the developer workstation is the main target of this system and what we try to design this for, we do of course also welcome other users to the Fedora Workstation. In fact many of the changes and improvements we expect to implement for developers will be equally beneficial to other user segments, for instance our plans around multi-screen handling and improved terminal functionality should also be highly beneficial to a system administrator. Or the work we are doing to provide a high performance graphics workstation would be useful to people who want a linux gaming PC. Or a student who just want a system with a productivity suite to write their papers will of course get benefit from the fact that we do ship a good productivity suite. We will welcome feedback and request from all our users and try to accommodate it as long as it doesn't negatively impact our developer target group and we have people available who have the time and ability to work on the requests.

You should probably read this: http://fedoramagazine.org/5tftw-five-fedora-21-faqs/ :)

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The only problem I have is with gnome-software. Sometimes it does not install the program I want to install, sometimes there is no install button. I use yumex and it works great. I wouldn't be able to use Fedora if it wasn't for this alternative software market. Speaking of version 21. Barely had problems with 20.

Ervin-Reloaded gravatar imageErvin-Reloaded ( 2014-12-19 09:16:37 -0500 )edit

@Ervin-Reloaded file bug reports against gnome-software

mether gravatar imagemether ( 2014-12-19 19:32:29 -0500 )edit

You may want to rewrite the sentence : "While the developer workstation is the main target of this system"

deadrat gravatar imagedeadrat ( 2014-12-28 06:01:46 -0500 )edit

@mether, already filed bugs, hopefully it will be fixed, and I am looking forward to having a more awesome software center in version 22.

Ervin-Reloaded gravatar imageErvin-Reloaded ( 2014-12-29 14:43:20 -0500 )edit
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answered 2014-12-19 09:15:17 -0500

Ervin-Reloaded gravatar image

It's a myth that Fedora is mostly developer focused. Just like it is a myth that it is not stable.

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answered 2014-12-14 12:09:20 -0500

Remember that developers are people too. The target audience needs to browse the web, listen to music, edit documents, create and manipulate images, too. While the developer workstation is the main target of this system and what we try to design this for, we do of course also welcome other users to the Fedora Workstation. In fact, many of the changes and improvements we expect to implement for developers will be equally beneficial to other user segments. For instance our plans around multi-screen handling and improved terminal functionality should also be highly beneficial to a system administrator. Or the work we are doing to provide a high performance graphics workstation would be useful to people who want a Linux gaming PC. Or a student who just wants a system with a productivity suite to write papers will of course get benefit from the fact that we do ship a good productivity suite. We will welcome feedback and requests from all our users and try to accommodate it, as long as it doesn’t negatively impact our developer target group and we have people available who have the time and ability to work on the requests. Take a look at the target audience

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answered 2014-12-19 22:38:50 -0500

When you try to convince us that your focus hasn't changed to a heavier developer emphasis, you are forgetting lines like this that I never picked up on before the current Fedora 21: "While the developer workstation is the main target of this system and what we try to design this for, we do of course (seems like much lower billing) also welcome other users to the Fedora Workstation." And, "...as long as it doesn’t negatively impact our developer target group." When you say that, you may as well say it in caps. We all see it and get it. It seems that you don't get it. Like you're not seeing the forest for the trees. It seems a bit exclusive to many of us. There's nothing wrong with focusing on developers - but when you say it like that, it leavs the rest of us thinking, "Oh, I guess I need a different distro." Here's a suggestion, pretty much what cgonz31 said in the first post.Take your workstation, add a few packages clearly targeted to "average desktop users" and name it "Desktop!" I'm not trying to be critical. I've used Fedora since the early Fedora Core days, and I'm used to it. I doubt that I'll change becuase it's still what I'm most familiar with. But I would hate to see it be used less just because of an emphasis that turns average Linux users off. My two cents :^)

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Please don't post comments as answers

mether gravatar imagemether ( 2014-12-20 07:36:32 -0500 )edit

You're more than welcome to create a desktop spin. The desktop team and community in general did not have enough time or resources to make it, which is why the workstation is the primary product. Matthew's post with the FAQs that I've listed quite clearly states what the workstation is and what it isn't.

FranciscoD_ gravatar imageFranciscoD_ ( 2014-12-28 15:14:43 -0500 )edit
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answered 2014-12-13 10:49:32 -0500

vtrefny gravatar image

IMHO Fedora was always focused mostly on developers.

Workstation "Target Audience": https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation/Workstation_PRD#Target_Audience

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That is not true, maybe the language can be missleading a bit. Fedora is excellent for average users, me being one of them. You can do anything with it's free software, the only problem being that most people will use skype or hangouts, rather than Linphone or Ekiga. But Ekiga and Linphone are just as excellent maybe even better. Just as an example. The DevAssisant tool is an awesome tool but you can uninstall it if you don't like it.

Ervin-Reloaded gravatar imageErvin-Reloaded ( 2014-12-19 09:14:58 -0500 )edit

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Asked: 2014-12-13 05:45:45 -0500

Seen: 1,098 times

Last updated: Dec 19 '14